Dr. Kinzer on Reasons for Witness

After writing Post-Missionary Messianic Judaism, Mark Kinzer has often been misunderstood as a Jewish universalist or someone who has no motive for witness of Yeshua to Jewish people. The following are notes from his lecture delivered this morning at the UMJC annual conference. Dr. Brown, are you reading?

Dr. Mark Kinzer
Yeshua, the Glory of God, and the Glory of Israel: Motives for Post-Missionary Messianic Jewish Outreach

What does post-missionary mean? It does not mean ignoring God

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10 Responses to Dr. Kinzer on Reasons for Witness

  1. Amy Downey says:

    If Mark Kinzer does not have univeralist tendencies what does he mean by the following statement that you included in this blog — “PMJ does not assume that all Jews who reject Yeshua are doomed to Gehinnom. Nevertheless, we must be aware that the spiritual condition of our people today is not good.”

    I have read his book and I do believe that he has universalistic tendencies.

  2. Amy Downey says:

    And what about this quote — “Neither do we assume that all Jewish people who do not accept Yeshua are at enmity with God. Neither extreme should be assumed.”

    Anyone (Jewish or not) who does not receive Jesus as Messiah is at enmity with God. Does not Paul say that in Romans 8:1-8?

  3. Susan says:

    In accusing Dr. Kinzer of universalist tendencies, Amy makes a basic mistake of logic. Dr. Kinzer is reported to have said that “

  4. Dr Michael L Brown says:

    Derek,

    How interesting! I have not visited your blog in many weeks and, quite out of the blue, I thought of checking it out — and then spotted your question to me. So yes, I have read Dr. Kinzer’s remarks and, for reasons that should be obvious to any careful reader, I am all the more alarmed and concerned.

    He writes, “It does not mean that we simply consider Orthodox Judaism the only valid expression of Jewish life.” Notice that word “only”! He is thereby saying that Orthodox Judaism is at least A valid expression of Jewish life, which is to thereby deny the neccesity of explicit faith in Yeshua.

    He writes, “Neither do we assume that all Jewish people who do not accept Yeshua are at enmity with God.” How does this comport with the testimony of the Gospels or the general NT statement that all those who live outside of faith in Yeshua are under the power of the evil one?

    He writes, “PMJ does not assume that all Jews who reject Yeshua are doomed to Gehinnom.” This, quite frankly, is heresy, plain and simple.

    He writes, “. . . we must be aware that the spiritual condition of our people today is not good. Agnosticism is high. Love of Torah is low. Few are seeking to live their lives in such a way that the sanctification of God

  5. Martin F says:

    Derek,

    As I see this debate between Brown and Kinzer, I muse of the fact that I was told that this a classical example of Jewish thought vs. Christian thought.

    I was told that Mark Kinzer

  6. Martin:

    Did we meet at the New England conference?

    I am slightly familiar with the Emergent Village. I plan to read and listen to a little more of their stuff. At the moment their website seems to be having a problem.

    I had not thought about some of these emerging and missional Christian groups as a possible parallel to Post-Missionary Messianic Judaism, but you may be right. Who knows, it may be a future thread for the blog.

    Other than Brian McLaren, I haven’t seen anything about Emergent Village that would raise evangelical red flags. If you know of some examples, please do share. McLaren is controversial though I don’t know details.

    Derek

  7. BenYachov(Jim Scott 4th) says:

    >He writes,

  8. Martin says:

    Derek,

    We have not met. I have not been a member of a Messianic congregation for many years, and it has been over ten years since I attended a conference.

    I am not a follower of Emergent Village, but I did note their similarities. I find that website for Emergent Village more balanced than some of the speakers of the “movement”. I found it by accident looking for something called the Emerging Church, which I guess is something different.

    You do not have to create a thread on this topic on my account, unless it is helpful to you and the exploring Messianic Jewish future. My point is rather a simple and crude one; what makes Messianic Jews distinct is that they are Jews, not what they believe or practice per se. While Jews should have beliefs and practices that are commanded to them by God and scripture, it would be erroneous to claim that they are only ones that distinctly practice those things while others do not.

    Since their are many “Christian” groups practicing and believing what Jewish people believe and practice, the only thing that one can claim is that it is the exclusive right or obligation of Jewish people to practice and believe certain things from scripture if comparative distinctions are to be made.

  9. troybronsink says:

    Derek and Martin,

    it would be great to talk. I first met Dr Kinser at the wedding of a freind of mine from semeinary at Columbia, Jonathan Kaplan. i think this is a very important book! i think there is a unique conversation to be had between the post-missionary messianic judaism and the Emergent church. Meanwhile, I also had the great priveledge to meet many emerging rabbis at a Synagogue 3000 event 2 years ago. And so I am simultaneously deconstructing and deconstructed by the 2000 year relationship between judaism and christianity that has been further bifurcated by certain fundamentalist forms of 20th century western messianic judaism. It seems an emergent Christian’s association with either group creates conflict with the other group. what to do?

    Anyway. I’m in Atlanta and I’d love to talk about all this over beer, Derek!

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