Much has been said on this blog and elsewhere about the confusing landscape of Messianic Judaism in its many forms. A wide variety of groups use the title Messianic Judaism. Some are quite weird, even disturbing. The majority are somewhere between clueless and decent. A few actually get it, that Messianic means promoting Yeshua-faith and Judaism means, well, Judaism. And we know Judaism is the Judaism of scripture and tradition, the Bible and the rabbis. No other definition will do.
So, with that in mind, I offer a guide to Jews who are seeking a Jewish home where Yeshua can be their Rebbe and where Jewish identity is respected. The following are my opinions. Feel free to write in and disagree.
1. If you do not live in a city with a decent Jewish population and you are a Jew, what were you thinking? If you live in a small town with no traditional synagogues and you see an advertisement for a Messianic Jewish congregation, beware! You simply have to live in a Jewish place. So pack your bags and forget about that little congregation in Booger Holler, Georgia. It just won’t work out.
2. If the
Well, as a Messianic rabbi who teaches that all Believers should keep Torah (although I don’t suggest that the rabbinic traditions are all good by any stretch), thank you very much for your derision.
I am sure the first Pilgrims, who were Torah observant and came here to the Americas to escape people persecuting them for being Torah observant, thank you too.
Adam… this was a guide for Jewish believers looking for the right place to worship and fellowship, not for those who want to minimize the Jewishness of the Messianic Judaism and appropriate Israelite identity and HaShem’s promises to Israel for themselves.
Shalom,
Gene
Adam said,
“I am sure the first Pilgrims, who were Torah observant and came here to the Americas to escape people persecuting them for being Torah observant”
This is a common myth in the MJ circles that has no bases in historical fact. As much as I would like it to be true, I have searched the original sources and have found not even a mention as of yet.
MJH
Gene, don’t assu. It makes an ass out of you. I am of Jewish descent on both sides of my family. My father was the president of a Conservative synagogue back in the 50s. After arriving in Fresno, my family was active in the local Reform temple LONG before my folks accepted Messiah.
I don’t “want to minimize the Jewishness of the Messianic Judaism and appropriate Israelite identity and HaShem
Adam… calm down and take a deep breath…
You said: “I just see the Scriptures telling us that Israelite identity is for all of those who choose it by accepting Messiah.”
I will let our Jewish readers to judge your words above.
Spoken like a true replacement theologian…(the Reform kind?) Fortunately, the scriptures do not support your strange beliefs. It’s not HaShem’s desire to blur Israel into an indistinct mess you’re attempting to create by Judaizing (in the bad sense of that word, since you are making every attempt to remove the “Ju”) the Gentiles.
Make G-d have mercy on you, my friend.
Gene
adam,
if torah observance was obligatory for those gentiles who came to trust in Yeshua, why did Yaakov and the other leaders of the early Messianic community send out the letter listing of the five commands for gentiles to follow in Acts 15? If full Torah observance for gentiles was assumed why didn’t the letter say “You gentiles who have believed now have to observe all the commands of the Torah”?
torah observance was given to the Jewish people as a distinct sign of their place as G-d’s chosen, when people say that Torah observance is obligatory for gentile Yeshua believers it blurs, if not negates the important place of the Jewish people and is s form of superseccionism, like it or not.
Yochanan… I already went over this with Adam here in this blog… many times. I spent more time on this with him and others in his camp than I could afford to spare…
It’s useless to convince him otherwise at this point. No amount of scripture pointing will do. He thinks that Jews in MJ are arrogant and proud, and that we want to keep the Gentiles down and excluded from Israel.
And then there’s twisting of history with his “I am sure the first Pilgrims, who were Torah observant and came here to the Americas to escape people persecuting them for being Torah observant”.
Torah-observant Pilgrims? Care to show proof of that, Adam? Granted, the Pilgrims may have fancied themselves Israelites (or New Israel OF G-d), but that’s warped thinking is no different than most of your standard replacement folk (not to mention numerous cults). But Torah observant to boot? Oy vey!
However, it’s good for the readers of this blog to see this and learn.
Shalom,
Gene
Then what do you believe Romans 11 means, Gene?
Gene, I don’t teach Replacement Theology. That’s the Church’s spiel. I teach JOINING Theology. They JOIN Israel, they don’t REPLACE it. You have no answer for this because it’s straight from Scripture, so you put out this “Replacement Theology” red herring.
I also don’t think the original insult from Derek was called for. Derek, I have a great deal of respect for you and felt you should know better to say something like that even when we disagree. It was hurtful; I doubt you intended it that way, but please consider it from my perspective. Because you disagree with the perspective, you suggest those who hold it are “wannabes” and need to “convert” in order to become “respectable.” In many ways, that is exactly the look-down-their-noses-at-the-goyim attitude of Jews (both traditional and Messianic) who think (or seem to) that to be fully part of God’s Redeemed People, they have to undergo ritual conversion. Even if you don’t think so, it’s still a pretty rude attitude to take. Laying aside the issue of what the actual commandment is, since there is (obviously) room for debate… is there something BAD about teaching non-Jewish Believers about Torah, why and how it’s good to keep it? I didn’t say demanding it of them, I didn’t say suggesting it’s necessary to get or maintain salvation, none of that. Is there anything in there worth your derisive words? Isn’t civilized debate enough? I am sorry for firing back in kind, but it hurt when someone I respect as much as I do starting firing verbal barbs in my direction.
Yochanan, Acts 15 is about non-Jews coming into the faith. The Circumcision Faction was trying to claim that all Gentiles had to undergo training and ritual conversion (the last step of which was circumcision and that came to symbolize the whole process) BEFORE accepting Messiah. The ruling of the Nazarene Sanhedrin in Acts 15 is that this is not a pre-condition for salvation; indeed, ritual conversion was a man-made rite designed so the person would enter Israel through works. It is the epitome of the works-based theology.
In response, to go along with the Yeshua theology of being grafted into Israel through FAITH, the Nazarene Sanhedrin made basic requirements for entry into FELLOWSHIP (not salvation/grafting-in), and suggested that the new Believers go to the synagogues and learn Torah each Sabbath (Acts 15:21). They are expected to GROW in observance. Afterall, a child is given 13 years before they are to be personally held accountable for Torah. It is not right to expect new Believers to jump right in and do it all at once, while first undergoing a unnecessary ritual that seeks to do through works what their very faith did for them.
This issue is the basis of my book “Beyond Salvation: Why Believers in Jesus Should Keep the Torah.” You can check it out at http://beyondsalvation.info .
Adam:
I changed the wording of point 5 and also 5c to be less insulting. I know you would still not agree with what I say, but I hope I have taken the insulting bite out of it.
Derek
P.S. Now, two-housers and sacred name people, don’t bother to write in and ask me to make a change.
Adam…
You said: “Gene, I don
This is amazing. Okay, what is your definition of “live as Jews as commanded by God through Moshe”? Especially since neither the term nor the concept of “Jew” (except POSSIBLY as describing a member of the Tribe of Judah) DIDN’T EXIST AS THE TIME!
Adam…
You said: “This is amazing. Okay, what is your definition of