I am amazed sometimes at how people who read the same Bible as I do miss out on God’s heart for the descendants of Jacob, the Jewish people — in Israel and all around the world. Many feel Israel is no longer relevant. Others know a lot of God-stuff will happen in and through Israel but figure it has nothing to do with their daily life.
The promises of God about Israel’s continuing place are numerous. The short list below is almost random there are so many to choose from:
–How can I give you up, O Ephraim? How can I hand you over, O Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I treat you like Zeboiim? My heart recoils within me; my compassion grows warm and tender. Hosea 11:8
–For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11 (it’s about Israel, not about just anyone who feels like making it a promise for themselves!)
–Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar
derek
i have a few questions:
if God gave a covenant through abraham arent arabs included then through ismael?
if we, as gentiles are “spiritual” seed of abraham, then why shouldnt we be circumcized?
and finally, why shouldnt gentiles keep Sabbath? (here is something i read a couple days ago in Isaiah 56:6-7 “6And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant 7these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”)
this passage makes me think that we as gentiles are to keep the Sabbath. i dont see circumcision and Sabbath as strictly Jewish. besides what makes one “jewish”? paul asks the same thing, and he seems to say its not circumcision but the heart. so can that mean a gentile can be “jewish” by heart? wouldnt ruth be one?
i am not saying that the “church” has replaced israel, ie supersessionism. but i think that it is possible that israel has been enlarged. paul talks of branches grafted into the olive tree. from what i know, the olive tree represents israel and the stump or root as Messiah. if gentiles are grafted in, that doesnt deny the natural branch but includes the ones that are grafted in. what does this mean for gentiles?
peter
Peter:
In response to your first question, the covenant passed through Isaac and then Jacob, not Ishmael or Esau. I could have said children of Jacob, but I was emphasizing that the covenant started with Abraham. Arabs are not part of the Chosen People (nor are Americans).
In response to the second, you ask a complex question that will start a debate. I wrote a whole book on the topic (Paul Didn’t Eat Pork, get it at hopeofdavid.com or mtolivepress.com). Let me say a few things: (1) Exodus 31:13 says it is a sign between God and Israel, (2) Acts 15 does not impose the Sabbath on Gentiles, (3) Rom 14, understood in context, says Sabbath is God’s expectation of Jews, not Gentiles, and (4) Isaiah 56 is in the context of the millennium, not now. In the Age to Come we will all keep Sabbath and dietary law.
About circumcision the NT is clear–not a law for Gentiles.
Nothing I have said means Gentiles cannot keep Sabbath or Torah, just that some parts of Torah are not Gentile requirements. Hope you will read Paul Didn’t Eat Pork.
The NT image of non-Jewish believers being the seed of Abraham is not meant to equate Jews and Gentiles and erase distinctions.
Derek
I agree. It is critical for Christians to understand that we do not replace natural Israel in God’s plan. God did not made a mistake in creating Judaism and then in utter exasperation send His son to correct it 4,000 years later.
Replacement theologist are calling God a liar and a promise breaker.
The covenant God made with Moses was an extension to the covenant He made with Abraham. (Exodus 19-24). This extension was the instructions on how to please God (keep the Torah) in the covenant relationship.
The Messianic covenant was a further extension of His covenant (when Christ died on the cross for our sins.)
Wonderful comments tonight. Shabbot Shalom everyone !!
derek and robin
i dont know how this came across, but i DO NOT believe in replacement. i was merely saying that i think there might be grounds for gentile believers to eat kosher and to keep the Sabbath.
i am personally undecided about the kosher bit, although i generally abstain from unclean food.
however, about the Sabbath, i believe i MUST keep the Sabbath. i dont think God is unclear about that. i know Derek you said that Isa 56 is for the millenium, but thats a little problematic for me. i dont quite buy that. there is no indication that this is so. instead, the context sounds like it is refering to Messiah’s coming. in addition, i am not sure, but i am leaning toward amillenialism, which means we are in the millenium now, which would mean i should keep the Sabbath.
anyway, i dont mean to argue, i am really just curious and have many doubts and questions i want to find answers to.
as far as your book, Derek, i look forward to reading it. i will go to the site when i get a chance.
shalom
pb